How can Dax be the FCD MVP when Cunningham leads the team in goals and assists?

Bob, because unlike baseball, some contributions in soccer can’t be measured with statistics, at least not until MLS introduces a Carling Opta Index

My MVP is VDB. Hmmm….

“You down with VDB?

Yeah, MVP!”

I really dont see Dax as a good player… He has been playing decent but he really isnt a d-mid and some games we lost cause of his lack of range….. Sorry but I just dont buy his game a all…
Yes Jeff deserves MVP, he has been in the starting 11 for just 11 games….. and has been impressive…

Phil, regarding Dax, I think you are in the minority on that one my friend

Phil, you don’t buy his game because your understanding of the game is lacking. It takes time though, and experience, so keep at it

Bob – you are kidding right?

I pick Dax as Most Improved, but I agree with Bob and Phil on Jeff as MVP. VDB is a contender for MVP also, but Cunningham beats him out.
Cunningham is on pace to set the team record for goals in a seasons, have to admit he was a great addition to the team.

Exactly how many goals and assists did Oscar ever get?

Dax is turning into the best midfielder to ever play in Dallas.

Enjoy him while you can, I’m sure he’ll jump for the big $$$$$ in Europe the first chance he gets.

How come whenever the discussion centers on Dax, the flaming starts?

Dax is a good player but he still makes his share of bonehead plays. In my opinion, he would not do well in Europe. Just my opinion.

An MVP brings more to the table than simply goals… Not to mention, if Jeff was a true MVP he’d be capitalizing on even more chances than he has! He blows too many opportunities. And on a team that is terribly inconsistent, Dax in my mind has been one of the few who a pretty descent game each time he goes out. Jeff has come on the second half of the year, where was he at the beginning? Either on the bench or not playing well…

how about a score for Wagner? from what i saw, LA’s third goal was off his man. not really to blame him, he had JUST come in.

Sorry, I think Dax is playing better than he was but La Flecha Rocha (sp?) is NOT our MVP. I’d like us to get to the point where we don’t have to start him.

Dax had some off games early in the season and did not several start either.

Tell the truth – if KCJ was here and had 12 goals at this point you would be supporting him for MVP..

I’m not saying Dax is MVP, but “had some off games early” and “makes his share of bonehead plays”.. come on guys. All of the best players in the world have some off games and make some boneheaded plays.

It’s a judgment call; tough to argue with 12 goals for Cunningham, but let’s not get carried away. McCarty is an Olympian having a breakout year and knocking on the door of the full MNT, to say he’s not good or you don’t think he’s starter quality is pretty outrageous.

I say if you don’t make the playoffs, nobody played well enough for an MVP nomination. Making the playoffs is all about having players that play consistently well. This team hasn’t shown that this year.

Hey, I think Dax should get Most Improved player for FCD, but he isn’t our MVP and, in fact, he did have some off games this year. Doesn’t mean I don’t think he should be starting…..

El Andy:

Yes, all players make bad plays. My response was to the comment that he would be in Europe soon. Dax is a very good MLS player. I don’t think he will be much beyond that.

If Cooper can barely get a sniff for the MNT, I don’t see how McCarty will get any at all. Who is he going to beat out?

Rick is correct. How does someone that does not play at least sometimes on the MNT, does not even make the MLS all star team. He sometimes does not even start for one of the lowest MLS teams make it to Europe. When you travel to see FCD, you here the home fans talking up Toja, Coop, type players. I never hear any talk on Dax. Most of the time I even hear who is that short guy. If people in MLS markets don’t know him are lots of offers coming in from Europe, Remember SH was trying to shop him out pre-season and had no takers.

Ivan – you don’t have to be an MLS all-star to get a contract in Europe. Dax could get offers from team in Europe for sure. No he isn’t going to a top Premiership team or top La Liga team, but he could easily play in Europe. Look at Clarence Goodson as an example. A decent MLS player went to Norway, got more money and is a full time starter for his club. I bet he gets looks now from some bigger clubs..
Dax could do the same.

Regarding SH shopping Dax, no takers was more than likely due to what FCD wanted in return…

Let’s not undersell Dax, he is a valuable piece to this team and a quality player that is getting better each season. Not the team MVP though..

Jones, I think someone else made a starting comment. Spot on with the Europe stuff

Rick, fair enough, still don’t think making some boneheaded plays precludes you from going to Europe (Michael Bradley makes boneheaded plays all the time and is excelling in Europe)

I still dont’ think McCarty will be in Dallas next year so maybe all this is for naught

I am not a proponent of Dax. I think he’s the type of guy where the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts. He has lots of abilities, but lot’s of drawbacks.

People rant about our small midfield a lot, and ususally focus on David F. and now of course Chavez. But David scares people. Dax forte is free kicks, and not making stupid plays, and being a good link. Sorry, that’s not enough.

He doesn’t have the speed or offensive tools to be scary in attack, and he doesn’t provide enough bite to be defensive mid. I think his best role is as defensive mid in a 3-5-2 where he’s next to a crusher.

For now, his best role is, to me, on the bench, where his versatility would allow him to be subbed in at lots of positions. I hope we’re good enough that he no longer starts.

5-6’s for a defense that gave up 3 goals, dax mvp of what….don’t drink so much until after you write this stuff.

I completely buy Dax’s game. It’s similar to Claudio Reyna’s, and everybody could use a Reyna–although Dax has a ways to go to do it as well as him.

Link play, changing the point of attack, calming the midfield, providing an “out” for teammates, and everything else these guys do is awfully difficult to quantify, and nearly always under-estimated.

My MVP would be Ricchetti. Where would this team be had he not taken one for the team and moved to the back line? Defense has settled considerably with him there.

RMH’s second paragraph is exactly right. Some of the other comments here indicate that some of you have a lot to learn about this sport.

SH is a genius. We’ll score 5+ goals a game now. Letting Cooper go and turning Cunningham loose is what we needed.

Its amazing to me that everyone keeps beating Schellas down when he has said almost from the beginning that the biggest requirements for his system are linking ability and speed. Every single acquistion he has made over the course of the year has been a speed or link player. Thats why Cunningham is having so much success and why Dax is having so much success. Benitez, Harris, Ihemelu, Chavez and even Pearce all have speed. VDB and Richetti and Ferreira are great link players, Cooper was not, Saragosa was not, Moor was not, etc. Once this team learns to trust each other completely and adjusts to each other, I think they will be fine….everyone just needs to let things happen and take shape. The LA game was the first signs of the system being played properly, lets see how it plays out.

“I completely buy Dax’s game. It’s similar to Claudio Reyna’s, and everybody could use a Reyna–although Dax has a ways to go to do it as well as him.

Link play, changing the point of attack, calming the midfield, providing an “out” for teammates, and everything else these guys do is awfully difficult to quantify, and nearly always under-estimated.” by RMH

“RMH’s second paragraph is exactly right. Some of the other comments here indicate that some of you have a lot to learn about this sport.” by Rex Kramer

First I agree with RMH’s 2nd paragraph. Second Rex decides to take a cheap shot.

I guess my point then is, that Dax simply isn’t good enough. He is a linking player, I never said that wasn’t important. I said what Dax brings isn’t enough. Just because you’re a good linking player (as your strong point) doesn’t mean you’re an MLS quality linking player. Deal with it.

In my opinion, RHM and El Andy’ comments are spot on. It seems to me some people here are obsessed with the American way of thinking when it comes to sports: That is, that the biggest and fastest guys on the field are the ones who bring the most to the table. Obviously, when talking about Dax, these are clearly not his strengths and this is why I think some people undersell his value. Dax is one of the few players whose vision and technichal ability are truly top notch in terms of MLS standards, at least for an American. As to him being successful in Europe, who really knows? I think that Dax could absolutely be a success in Europe if he finds the right situation. There are some players over there now finding success who surely had there fair share of doubters.

One final note, with regards to Dax breaking through with the National Team. I think it was Buzz (correct me if I’m wrong) who reported that Dax was being strongly considered for the Gold Cup team, with him being an alternate or something along those lines. So clearly the kid is doing something right.

So, Dax might have been an alternate for the Gold Cup team, which was essentially our 2nd string National team. Now there’s something to hang your hat on!

I watch MLS games, last I checked FCD was an MLS team. I’m comparing Dax to the fast, physical, clutching & grabbing MLS opposition. Speed & Physicality are important in this league. Skill, touch & decision making are important in this league also.

I have stated on previous occassions (not this thread) that a problem with Dax is that while he has good vision & technical ability, he doesn’t use them quickly enough. In other words, he needs to do the same things he does, but faster & quicker.

We’ve mentioned size, speed, physicality, vision, technical ability. But don’t leave out reaction time & speed of play. Dax is lacking in size & he’s lacking in the athletic ability to perform at a fast soccer rate.

Everyone knows the more room you have on a soccer field the easier it is to perform. In tight spaces under pressure, you need a quick sure touch & a quick sure decision. To me, that is where Dax suffers.

The gold cup team was the MNT second team. That would put Dax on the thrid team, since he didn’t make it.

I am not wishing to slam Dax. He is a good player for what he brings. I just think he gets an inflated reputation in Dallas.

Jerry, Yes Dax was a injury alternate for the gold cup. I’m also hearing from US circles that he’s under consideration for a camp coming up.

I am thinking Rex adds nothing to a good discussion and interesting exchange of opinion other than a childlike attempt at a slam.

Moving on to adult conversation, Dax is no doubt talented and has helped the team this year, in particular the second half of the season he seems to have bought into the system SH is using. I think he is improving and has potential to play with the Nats down the road. He isn’t there yet, but I could see him getting callups in the next couple of years, who knows maybe WC 2014..

Saban, I think your analysis is just flat out wrong. I’ve seen McCarty play at multiple levels, some significantly higher than the MLS, and speed of play is not a problem. In fact I think his game is significantly better suited for higher levels, where the play is quicker and the players smarter/better. The beauty of soccer is there isn’t a prototype player.

I actually think his reputation is understated at Dallas, and that he is far better respected other places, including US Soccer.

Jones, again I think you hit the nail on the head here, although I sentimentally agree with Rex on this one and think that he is probably closer to a call up than we might expect. Unfortunately I dont’ think American fans have developed a thorough enough understanding of the game to really analyze players.

Buzz, thanks for the info. Good to see him getting the recognition he deserves, even if hes only “under consideration” as some people on here will probably point out.

El Andy, I’ve been wrong before and I will be again. But a question, isn’t it possible that McCarty’s game is better suited to a non-MLS environment?

If that were true all you guys could be right. But so could I, because I addressed all my discussions to MLS – and I specified such.

Thanks for the discussion guys!

Look at it like this:

If you wanted a defensive midfielder would you take Richetti, Sharlie Joseph, Ricardo Clark, (I’m bad with names) the guy who used to be a regular for on the US natinal team and played for Colorado (now past his prime) or McCarty?

If you wanted an Attacking midfielder, would you take Donovan, or David F., Schelloto or McCarty?

If you wanted a left wing type midfielder would you take VDH, Shea, Lewis, Brad Davis, or McCarty?

If you wanted a right wing type midfielder… you get the idea.

I can always come up with people I like better, that play in MLS some on FCD.

The guy above I couldn’t remember is Mastroani (sp).

McCarty must have violated saban’s daughter or something…

saban,

other than Shea, who among those names are as young as McCarty?

The kid has a bigger upside then Rico,
David F. has been crap until the last couple of games,
Shea is waaaay more inconsistent than Dax on his worst day

I chose specific names to make a general point. Shea is young & developing but I’d play him at a left wing mid over Dax any day.

Please don’t try to compare Dax as attacking mid to David; don’t go there.

The general point is there have been & will be better options in SH system than Dax. Richetti is a better Dmid. VDH a better left, David a better attacking mid.

With our present personnel you can try to squeeze him in on the right wing mid, but Harris is a better fit, and even if he wasn’t FCD should look for a better option there than Dax. So, the only spot for him is to share the central role in the 4-1-4-1 with David. He’s an acceptable option there. But like one of my original comments in this thread says, I hope we have enough talent now to bench him. My thought with that statement is that Chavez will take over eventually & be what we hoped Sanchez would be, (and was for a game or two).

Saban –
Why do you call Dave van den Bergh DVH?

I have seen DvB and VDB – just wondering because it has tken me three days to determine who you meant for certain.

All -
Have enjoyed the discussion on the merits and challenges of Dax, Dave, David, and Jeff. (by the way – it is “La Flecha Roja” – the red arrow).

Aside from the relative merits as players, one thing that has not been discussed is the definition of MVP…

With some peoples comments I take it that they think Paul Scholes, Xavi and Iniesta are poor players since they lack the size, speed and athleticism that a Gerrard brings to the table. You pair a smart soccer player like Dax with better players then you will see him play even better as opposed to playing with a bunch of athletes with little to no soccer IQ on this FCD team.

Saban, we hear you, but give it a rest. If you can’t fathom the merits of McCarty’s game or why he should be on the field at all times, I’m not going to bludgeon you/the comment board with counterpoint after counterpoint. If you think his game is better suited in another league, say it and I would agree. But you battered home the point that he “isn’t good enough,” which frankly isn’t true. He has a bright future and I fully expect him to play for the MNT in the near future, get picked up somewhere in Europe, and/or sign a good contract in the US.

As a side note, I would take him over all the players you mentioned at dmid, and hands down at holding mid (his natural position).

What El Andy just said.

OK. Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers (not too many anyway). It was a fun discussion though wasn’t it?

And, I’ll tell you what, I learned some stuff during the discussion. (Besides how bad my spelling is!)

Opinions are great, we should all keep an open mind – myself included.

No worries, Saban! Something to keep in mind is that Schellas may have a similar opinion of Dax and get rid of him soon…although I’m not sure you want that as support for your rating of Dax!

I chuckled when I read jamez’ comment, well said.

The defense has settled considerably since Sala has returned. Ricchetti has had THREE own goals this season – I think that’s one more than Badson even. Ricchetti did help a struggling Ray Burse and I think he’s done even much better with Sala in goal, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say he’s been this season’s MVP. Cunningham deserves that honor hands down. He’s stepped up since Cooper left -what more can you ask for?

I disagree with Peter’s game grade of Sala. He could have had the rebound from the second goal go off to the other side, but he more than made up for it the rest of the game. He had two great saves that kept the score 3-2 and allowed FCD to score another 3. It’s amazing how many balls are played back to him. He has the best feet of any keeper in this league and anyone who complains about his distribution doesn’t know a thing about the game.

I also disagree about Dax. I think he’s one of those players as Americans we just want to love, well, because he’s American, and I do think he had a good game, but there’s no way he’s this season’s MVP. I’m of the opinion he’s just too small to play in this league, and agree with those who say he might do better somewhere else. The guy loses the ball as much or more than anyone on the field and I think a lot of our issues in the midfield are because of him.

Chazsoccer,

I finally figured out why I kept calling Dave van den Bergh VDH.

One of my favorite writers is Victor Davis Hanson and National Review always refers to him as VDH.

Absolutely, no feathers ruffled here. That’s what good discussions are for, reasonable and thoughtful. Good to hear differing opinions. I’m sure we’ll address MVP qualities when someone posts an article about their thoughts, until then…

I want to sign off on this for now but Knapper is killing me. I think it may seem he loses the ball more because he gets so many touches, but I’ve never kept stats on this. I’ve always been under the impression that he keeps the ball very well. Buzz, I know it’s a lot of game tape but have you seen anything like this as a stat?

“He has the best feet of any keeper in this league and anyone who complains about his distribution doesn’t know a thing about the game.”

I will grant you that Sala is no Hartman. But I do not believe that his distribution is unworthy of complaint. Either your statement is an indictment of the distribution skills of every other keeper in the league, or you and I have differing opinions on what we expect from keeper passes, like not kicking it out of bounds or serving up 50/50 head balls to our 5′6 midfielders.

Oh my goodness, I log on here and find a lot of misinformation about Dax McCarty being spread.

Folks, lets wait until Dax is about 26 or 27 years old and we will see who is a starter for the MNT. He just turned 22 this April. Every year he gets better and better. Last year was a big maturation year for him. Think of what he went through. Olympic qualifiers, a back injury that almost saw him miss the chance to travel to China, and then difficulty (mentally as well as physically) upon returning to MLS. He probably thought himself a bit better than he actually was at the time, and needed to go through what he did last year. To me, Dax passed the test with flying colors. I am proud of the young man.

Here is something you cannot teach, nor measure with statistics. Heart. Fight. A work ethic. Dax has that quality 100%. Give me a team full of professionals with that attitude and I will show you a championship squad. Perhaps more important than winning hardware though, is the enjoyment of the game it gives me as a fan to watch it. Right now, Dax still makes a good number of passing mistakes every game, but those mistakes are getting fewer and fewer as time moves forward. Again, I urge you to withhold judgment until he reaches that age by which all footballers are truly judged in terms of salary value and national caps. I have a strong suspicion that Dax will play a solid role on the USMNT in the future.

As for him being the MVP this year, that is difficult to say, because the squad has changed so much, but he is at least an honorable mention. I think you have to give the nod to JC because of his incredible second half of the season. He had like what….1 goal in the first 10 games and is now in the running for the golden boot. That is an impressive run for sure!

Chill out on Dax people! He has the heart of a lion and represents the shirt like few others do.

Dax = 15 MNT caps Max

Think Taylor Twellman; a man who fits your description perfectly.

Robert – are you Dave Dir because few have displayed such a zest for young American players like the enigma that is Dir (I’m trying to be nice.) Anyway, while I do like Dax and think he has definitely improved, I also agree that he’s too small for this league like others have said. But where you really lost me, and I mean showed me that you have no clue about anyone or anything on this team is when you talk about how great Dax’s attitude has been. Wasn’t that why he fell out of favor last year and the beginning of this year because he had some major attitude issues? That was well documented. Obviously that’s changed because he has improved, but you went a little far for me.